Tarot, Divination & the Symbolic Life

Aug 5, 2021

Guest T. Susan Chang is a writer, podcaster, and tarot teacher, the most commonly recognized modern form of divination. The archetypal symbols in the tarot’s 78 card deck offer gateways to meaning and mystery. Jung says symbols act as transformers—life energy is converted from a lower to higher form by the amplification that consciousness provides. Tarot divination is intended to break from the mundane and court the numinous. It asks that we set logic aside, surrender doubt, and step unafraid into the space between realms. As with dreams, whatever arises will tell us something we don’t know and can use. Jung said that the “redeeming symbol is a highway, a way upon which life can move forward without torment and compulsion.” By opening ourselves to the inexplicable, we set forth on that highway with the intent of discovering our unique pattern for personhood and purpose in the world. 

 A Two-Card Tarot Reading

This week, in lieu of a dream interpretation, Susie agreed to do a two-card Tarot draw for all of us. The question we chose was dealing with uncertainty. The cards, visible on camera, were spread out face down, and she gently moved them around, picked up a few, and selected two. Turning them over revealed the Queen and Page of Wands, two court cards. As the Queen of Wands has an outgoing nature, she creates networks. This card indicated that we can seek support from others in a time of uncertainty. The youthful Page of Wands, at whom the Queen seemed to be gazing, has a quality of innocence and optimism as he looks outward. Altogether this draw indicates that we can choose our attitude toward uncertainty. The Queen of Wands suggests the possibility of connection with others, and the Page conveys a spirit of adventure. 



Podcast: Fortune’s Wheelhouse







Learn to Analyze your own Dreams:  https://thisjungianlife.com/enroll/


  1. Karin

    What a magnificent episode. Thank you.

  2. Mustafa

    Any taro card app that might you recommend. Thanks

  3. Mamie Krupczak Allegretti

    Hello Joseph, Deb and Lisa,
    I’ve really been enjoying your guests. They’ve all been great. There were some interesting allusions to ceremonial magick. It made me think of a podcast I heard. Tami Simon interviewed Damien Echols about magick and it was very interesting. Liz Greene, in her book Jung’s Studies in Astrology: Prophecy, Magic, and the Qualities of Time, discusses Jung as a theurgist. That book is fascinating. I would love to hear her talk about that book and elaborate on her ideas there. She also discusses fate in a way that is really excellent. I also recommend her book The Astrology of Fate. On this same theme, Peter Kingsley in his notes in his book Catafalque, talks about an incident of “magic” that Jung used on Olga Frobe-Kapteyn (Vol. 2, p. 579-580) that affected her deeply. Thank you again for another great episode!

  4. Tosca Zraikat

    I thoroughly enjoyed the talk with T. Susan Chang, which stretched my mind and my heart, reminding me what it is like to live life so richly, with such passion, something I seem to have lost in my older years. I am inspired to pull out my long-ignored Tarot cards and do daily (for me) three-card draws, and to paint some of the images that come to mind as I study Jung (as I have been doing more intensely for the past few years), to re-read (in English, I dare not tackle Greek) those wonderful hymns that some believe were composed by Homer, and to think more deeply about how I might use the herbs I love to grow to make magic. At 73, I might not achieve all that is now tumbling through my mind, but I might awaken some of that old passion. Thank you for all your podcasts, and thanks to Ms. Chang, who made magic in her talk with you.

  5. marie

    yikes what happened here?

    • Joseph Lee

      Hi Marie,
      What’s troubling you about this episode?
      ~ Joseph


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